Re: FUTURE STATE OF ACID-JAZZ

From: Stimp (stimp@sympatico.ca)
Date: Tue May 30 2000 - 00:45:18 MET DST

  • Next message: christopherotto: "RE: FUTURE STATE OF ACID-JAZZ"

    I think that Dirk's right on when he points to the distinction between
    "entertainers" and "musicians" Backstreet Boys fans don't give a fuck about
    good musicianship, groove or any of that stuff that alot of us here look
    for. Whether their tunes are written by them or not DOES NOT MATTER!! It's
    catchy, they dance well, they move product, sell advertising and MAKE MONEY
    for their employers!!

        The Backstreet Boys are entertainment for the sake of entertainment, and
    that's fine for those who want that. Most people who buy top 40 look to be
    entertained; they don't necessarily by the records out a passion for music.
    If so, then why choose the most obvious? A music lover buys MUSIC, not
    entertainment, so image, dance steps, or washboard stomachs just don't
    matter, cos ears can't see, dig? Musicians reflect what's inside them while
    that is simply not necessary for an entertainer. The two can obviously
    co-exist, but it ain't always the case.

        Like Dirk pointed out, I can't imagine a DJ Shadow concert being all
    that interesting; what's there to see? Like or not, a Britney Spears show,
    while not even in the same universe musically, would be infinitely more
    entertaining. Pretty lights, nice body, great sex appeal, cool dance moves
    etc.... Sure beats looking at some guy behind the decks for 2 hours! I
    love many artists that I would never consider seeing live, cos their art is
    meant only to be listened to and not to be experienced live. Femi Kuti or
    Maceo Parker live makes sense to me; I'm not so sure about Mark Farina,
    Danny Tenaglia or DJ Shadow.

    Stimp
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Dirk van den Heuvel" <dirkv@groovedis.com>
    To: "Mark Turner" <nugroove@pacbell.net>; <acid-jazz@ucsd.edu>
    Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 5:43 PM
    Subject: RE: FUTURE STATE OF ACID-JAZZ

    > Mark,
    > While I agree with the spirit of your post..why you got ta diss Moby? Jay
    > from Jamiroquai has always been a spotlight hunting egoist. Only now his
    > lack of originality has finally caught up with him. He doesn't seem like a
    > terribly cool dude, though I did love LOVE early Jamiroquai records. Moby
    > ain't like that. He's a down to earth, heck of a nice guy and has tried
    MOST
    > of the time to do interesting work. There was a period where he seemed to
    be
    > caught in a circle, repeating himself, but I think the last record is
    quite
    > good DESPITE it being a huge success.
    >
    > Anyway I think we can pick worst artists to pick on than Moby and far
    bigger
    > labels than V2. In fact that's the new secret for the majors: get yourself
    a
    > trendy imprint and run it like an indie...just with lots of money and
    > marketing support. And lo and behold you get: V2 (the new Virgin with
    > distribution by BMG), Astralwerks (Virgin), Jive Electro, F-111, 1500,
    > Kinetic, etc etc. (Mind you some of those labels have their moments). And
    > when push comes to shove I think the indies are just as guilty as the
    majors
    > when it comes to flooding the market with mediocre product..go check the
    > compilation (or trance) section of any big record store for some obvious
    > proof.
    >
    > Rereading your post (again) I wanted to point out something else..dance
    > music isn't unique when it comes to pushing "marketable" bands over
    musical
    > merits. Check the sales figures of Destiny Child versus Kelly Price, or
    Lit
    > over (insert your favorite ugly indie rockers), Faith Hill vs (insert
    > overweight country singer here), etc. That's just the way of the world I
    > guess. In the trenches everyone slugs it out over quality, performance,
    > innovation, etc but when you get to the big acts in almost any genre (even
    > jazz--check Kenny G, the Marsalis brothers, etc vs "the good shit") you
    get
    > into looks, marketability, and the like.
    >
    > A little story: Years ago (in my underground techno days) I saw Njoi at
    > Limelight. It was one of the best shows I ever saw. Up until then I had
    only
    > heard their records, never saw pictures of them or anything. Back then
    most
    > techno artists were nameless and faceless anyway (I still don't know the
    > names of the 2 guys in Njoi by the way). Anyhow they had a big keyboard
    > setup with the two guys standing almost back to back facing the audience.
    On
    > the other end of the stage dancing in skintight bodysuits was Saffron
    (later
    > frontwoman for Republica) and some tall (7'+) man. Well with the lasers
    and
    > the non-stop music (they never stopped and they never spoke-as far as I
    > remember) it was quite a show. In fact it was my favorite techno show (and
    > still is). And for awhile they were my favorite band. What had catapulted
    > them to the top of my personal hit parade? That show. A similar thing
    > happened when I saw James Taylor Quartet live. And just a couple years
    back
    > when I saw Kojak (Rinocerose, Daft Punk, Demon-ha! Give me Kojak). What
    made
    > all these groups seem better than some of their competition? Seeing them
    > live and having them kick ass in performace and being able to put a face
    > with a name (and let's be honest an attractive face helps). I used to get
    a
    > lot of crap from some of my techno friends about loving that Njoi show.
    The
    > guys from Plus 8 were at that show. They owned those keyboards, and they,
    > unlike me, knew how they worked. They told me the whole thing was faked:
    > Triggered samples and DAT tapes. It was a fraud. But to me it didn't
    matter.
    > I loved that show, fake or no fake. As long as it SEEMED live, and as long
    > as I was entertained (and I was) it did what it needed to do. And that I
    > think is the most important thing to remember. Njoi entertained me. Speedy
    J
    > (who I saw a couple years later) did not. Speedy J is a much more
    innovative
    > musician, perhaps even a better musician, but he's a mediocre performer.
    For
    > all his "playing live" he bored the hell out of me. I'd rather be
    > entertained and lied to than sit there bored with reality. Milli Vanilli's
    > biggest crime was getting caught. Up until then everyone thought they were
    > getting their money's worth. And maybe, just maybe, they were.
    >
    > Maybe what makes a "great entertainer" is different from what makes a
    "great
    > musician" and the problem is sometimes we confuse the two? Maybe in some
    > sick, twisted way Britney Spears is "better" than DJ Shadow--not as a
    > musician, but as an entertainer....hhhmmmmmm
    >
    > Dirk van den Heuvel (dirkv@groovedis.com)
    > Groove Distribution
    > http://www.groovedis.com
    > Your Guide To The Underground
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Mark Turner [mailto:nugroove@pacbell.net]
    > Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 3:51 PM
    > To: acid-jazz@ucsd.edu
    > Subject: RE: FUTURE STATE OF ACID-JAZZ
    >
    >
    > Joni said:
    >
    > > It is evident by all of the commercial trk id posts that AJ, dnb,
    > > ect is out
    > > there all around us. It's in the intro's and outros's of tv/radio
    shows,
    > > but the same radio/tv stations never put anything of AJ, underground,
    dnb
    > > substance on as the feature. So I guess the question is: Why hasen't
    the
    > > rest of the world caught on? Or better yet do we even want them
    > > to? Do the
    > > big labels look for junk to push on the masses or do they turn what
    might
    > > have had potential to be good in to junk? And furthermore would
    > > the masses
    > > REALLY be interested and appreciative of all the artists that keep us
    > > moovin' ? I'm not sure how much credit to give or not to give to the
    > > people.
    >
    > For what it's worth, here's my somewhat cynical perspective. When any
    > musical style becomes popular enough that major record labels think they
    can
    > make some money off of it, that is the beginning of the end. Major labels
    > simply can't keep up with new musical trends, and are often left behind,
    > pushing "copycat" artists who really don't have a creative bone in their
    > bodies. Meanwhile, they're glutting the market with their major-label
    > product, so that curious listeners who might be willing to invest in a
    (fill
    > in the genre) album can't tell the good from the bad. And if they buy the
    > bad, or simply mediocre product, they're not apt to come back for more.
    >
    > But the "average" music listener is equally to blame. Time and again, we
    > have seen that people are more interested in "personality" artists than
    > musical quality. Just look at the popularity of artists like Moby or
    > Jamiroquai, who are on NOBODY'S list for musical innovation. Yet they
    have
    > a marketable image, and major-label dollars behind them, so they become
    > successful above and beyond what any musical merit could justify.
    Meanwhile
    > the image-less artists remain invisible to the masses.
    >
    > This weekend I went to see the new film "Better Living Through Circuitry,"
    a
    > documentary on the rave generation. The film is entertaining and very
    > well-made, though it's pretty disheartening from a musical perspective.
    > It's clear that most of the ravers interviewed aren't really interested in
    > music at all, but are simply there to take drugs and behave like children.
    > Don't get me wrong; I have nothing against ravers, OR taking drugs! As a
    > "scene," it's certainly more positive than many scenes that have gone
    > before. But the film did put things in perspective for me with regard to
    > music vs. lifestyle. Most people are simply not as passionate about music
    > as those of us on this list; they use music as a soundtrack to their lives
    > and nothing more. And for that purpose, it's not really relevant to them
    > how "innovative" the music is. For ravers, flashing lights and repetitive
    > beats are all they really need at a party.
    >
    > Please forgive my sweeping generalizations and realise this is just ONE
    > perspective. :-)
    >
    > ______________________________________________
    > Mark Turner nugroove@pacbell.net
    >
    > Hear "Jazzadelica" with Rocky Rococo on KFJC
    > Sundays 10pm-2am, 89.7 FM, Los Altos Hills, CA
    > Web: http://home.pacbell.net/nugroove/
    > ______________________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >



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