From: Matthew Glesne (mglesne_at_sbcglobal.net)
Date: 2004-06-28 21:34:42
one more short one for me too then...
> that happen in a socialist country? capitalism
> rewards moore for his
> hard work (criticizing capitalism) with millions of
> dollars and a
> nationwide stage, while fidel throws dissidents in
> jail by the hundreds.
an untrue low blow. amnesty intl says there are 78
so-called "prisoners of conscience" in cuba. 70 (5
have been released for humanitarian reasons in the
last week) of which were rounded up 2 years ago after
a sweeping investigation showed each had received
material and/or organizational assistance from groups
funded by the United States Government, bent on
socialism's overthrow. Cuba has executed 3 people -
hijackers. the US Gov't, on the other had, has killed
900 people and has tens of thousands in custody in
iraq, afghanistan and cuba (600), held as of today,
officially contrary to the geneva convention - being
held without charge.
> where would moore be in cuba? there, u couldn't make
> money w. a
> pro-party movie ('cuz nobody's got any money) and u
> couldn't make money
> w. an anti-party movie, cuz you'd be cooling your
> heels in JAIL!
it might suprise you that documentarians in cuba,
which has some of the finest around, are able to
receive any profits from their film. sharing with the
people was stopped years ago. and there are critical
films coming out all the time out of cuba - that get
wide release. One, which I just saw, Havana Suite, won
wide acclaim on the island and off, for being about as
frank a portrayal as possible about how the poorest of
havana get through the day (with a lot of dignity). it
got standing o's at the karl marx theatre, was not
edited a bit and was reviewed in the party newspaper
Granma. Alea, Cuba's top filmaker,in his later films,
relied on the absurdist aspects of Communism for
their plots. The economic situation in Cuba is no
secret.... still troubled after the fall of 1/3 of
their economy after Communism fell in Europe.
> this sophisticated pop music u speak of in cuba, is
> there any anti-fidel
> anti-socialist sentiment in the music? is there any
> dissent? of course,
> only a sick mind could possibly be critical of
> socialism in cuba.
> history will be his judge.
yes, there are loads. i am not an expert but i beleive
the article talked about the rappers telling things
how they were -albeit with a din of idealism - that is
often lacking here. there are no banned songs or
banned groups. and again, cuban musicians keep their
money - which is severely limited because they can't
sell a thing in miami or los angeles. IE we are
punishing the musicians - who can not receive their
grammy awards or gain entry to play with omar sosa,
just last week.
> now, are socialist boxers better than capitalist
> boxers? it's a silly
> argument... boxing talent, like music talent,
> doesn't respect borders.
> but who would u rather be today... teofilo stevens
> or george foreman?
Sorry, but this really shows why we will not agree.
Teofilo Stevens is a national treasure - someone who
walks down his own street a gets hugs and kisses from
the masses because of what he did for his country and
for what he did not do - take a professional fight or
move to the US for cash. He could have given Muhammed
Ali a run for his money, but principles and his
country mattered most. What young kid should have any
respect for George Foreman and his shameless
salesmanship - maybe capitalists in training or the
harvard business school grads. I can only laugh and
cringe for Foreman - back when he was the bumpkin
sticking up for the vietnam war and today.
By the way, look for the Cuban boxers to take at least
6 Golds this year at the Olympics... :)
> likewise, sure there's a lot of great musicians in
> cuba... and I'll bet
> most would trade places with arturo sandoval in a
> heartbeat.
Again, it is just hard to communicate how wrong this
is. Arturo sold out his music and his country - and
was willing to leave his family. He is a hero nowhere
but in Miami. Yes, Cubans would like to play in the US
and make money here. But WE disallow that, not Castro.
We intentionally do this to heighten the bait for
defectors. Plus Cubans are the only country in the
world to get citizenship, help with housing and
language an job training when they arrive on US soil.
Mexicans, coming for the same reason, get the boot by
the hundreds of thousands.
> in fact, here are arturo's own words on fidel;
>
> "I met him several times. I was there until I was 40
> years old. I met
> him several times and I tell you I also met a lot of
> people who knew him
> and his mentality is one of the toughest things you
> can imagine. He's a
> tough, nasty son of a bitch. It's impossible to
> believe you can
> establish a conversation or a dialogue with him.
> Whoever dreams about
> that is crazy. They don't know what they are talking
> about. They don't
> know the man. To establish any sort of conversation
> with him is
> impossible. He only believes what he has in his
> brain. What he wants to
> do is keep the power and get richer and richer. He
> don't care about
> anyone else..."
Arturo had to make up a whole series of lies for him
to get in the country, as he went through the lengthy
(and not easy) process of becoming a member of the
Communist Party. When Cubans arrive here, they have
to make up a whole litany of lies to make themselves
feel better for their betrayal and selfish greed. Look
at Contreas on the Yankees - dude can not even pitch
because his mind is on Cuba. Get to know any Cuba and
they will cry about missing their homeland. These lies
are the public face of despair.
> why, dear socialist, would u begrudge the man his
> millions? it may not
> buy him happiness...he can't buy that... but it did
> buy him a musician's
> dream recording studio in which to drown his
> sorrows!!!
Again, socialists don't want to begrudge anyone
anything. It is a matter that if the Cuban people put
tremendous scarce resources into music education and
sports, the Cuban people should not sit and watch
their treasures get up and leave after their training
is complete - and never even say thank you to the
people of Cuba by playing for them. Is this fair?
Prince should be playing for his fans in North
Minneapolis or South Central LA that don't have the 80
dollars to pay for his ego to get fatter. But
capitalism makes this virtually impossible even for
the artists that care about such people.
That is the point - we could do whatever we wanted
under socialism. We, the people, could turn the entire
industry up side down and make it work for those who
get nothign but radio hits from the current system.
Anything is possibble when profits and shareholders
are cut out. Captialism allows nonesuch. We will be
holding onto the shreds of culture, trying to protect
it from the market's logic, as long as we live. I
don't want a life of watching our artists sell out,
our radio get worse, our labels get bought out, our
venues close, our club nights get run off the road,
our remaining original sounds get co-opted by those in
europe or japan, our original artists not even be able
to hear and have a dialoge with these folks.... I
want improvement just like you. technology helps
greatly, but nothing beats playing the music of your
barrio for your barrio and passing it on.
Matt