Re: Jazz V. Disco; the showdown

From: Olaf Molenveld (olaf@interactivelink.nl)
Date: Wed May 15 2002 - 09:41:15 CEST

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    she obviously *never* took a look at the producers and musicians involved in
    quality disco....

    Olaf

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Dr. Axel Barcelo Aspeitia -- Investigador
    <abarcelo@minerva.filosoficas.unam.mx>
    To: Steven Catanzaro <stevencatanzaro@sprintmail.com>
    Cc: ACIDJAZZ <acid-jazz@ucsd.edu>
    Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 10:34 PM
    Subject: Re: Jazz V. Disco; the showdown

    > Steve, you are soooo right. I remember reading once Jane Child (remember
    > her?) saying that Disco was what happened when white guys tried making
    > funk, and I do not think she was way off the mark. Disco is different from
    > Funk in many ways, one of them being the huge difference mentioned by
    > Steve. I would gice the credit (or put the blame) on Girogio Moroder who
    > was such a control freak but made beautiful 'compositions'. He was also
    > one of the first using sequencer to get that super-controlled vibe on his
    > productions. Kudos to the man, in the name of one of those guys in front
    > of computers Steve mentions in his post!
    >
    > Dr. Axel Arturo Barcelo Aspeitia
    >
    > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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    > + Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico +
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    >
    > www.mp3.com/drxl
    >
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    >
    >
    > On Tue, 14 May 2002, Steven Catanzaro wrote:
    >
    > > Personally, I see a major line that can be applied to most developments
    in music for the last 75 or 80 years or so.
    > >
    > > The demarcation point that I'll stress is *improvisation* vs.
    *composition.*
    > >
    > > In improvised music, the structure of the piece, if any, exists only to
    support what the performers are going to make up on the spot. This leads to
    alot of spontaneity, as well as many "mistakes" being made in the music,
    i.e., phrases, rhythms, and harmonies that a person might not have come up
    with if they sat down and thought better about it.
    > >
    > > In composed music, all such "mistakes" are ironed out in advance. An
    arrangement is thought up, it is rehearsed or perfected until it is fully
    realized, and then it is recorded and/or performed. (Alternately, an idea
    that is initially improvised is then refined and polished ad nauseum, until
    the finished product is released to the public.)
    > >
    > > So, on the one hand, you've got the albums made by Thelonious Monk for
    Prestige in the 50's, and they're all sloppy and fabulous.
    > >
    > > On the other, you've got the disco of the Brothers Johnson, or Donna
    Summer, in which, as one AJ contributer notes, each *drum* of the drum kit
    was tracked seperately. Now THAT takes planning. Meticulous and perfect (and
    fabulous too!)
    > >
    > > Acid Jazz, or Soul Jazz, is firmly in the first tradition. Much of
    disco, pop, album rock, as well as classical music etc. is in the second
    tradition, and I would say that a LOT of the music talked about on this list
    in the last 4 or 5 years falls firmly in the second tradition.
    > >
    > > After all, the vast majority of it is made by anal males sitting in
    front of computers or various other bits of late 20th century
    electro-technology created to micromanage audio files. Similarly, you're not
    going to hear alot of the first tradition in B. Spears, N.E.R.D., or the rap
    of Lil' Kim and etc. (And in fact, the demarcation line in em-ceeing is
    whether you can "freestyle" it or not.)
    > >
    > > But do we say the one tradition is "dead" because the other is a bit
    more prominent at the moment? No. The great thing about it is even though
    jazz has always been about improvisation, the 2 traditions co-exist,
    cross-polinate, and oft-times intermingle.
    > >
    > > I find myself attracted to artists who are able to blend both
    traditions, or at least if they're firmly in tradition 2, they are creative
    enough to convey the sense of spontanaeity found in tradition 1.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >



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