From: Mark Turner (nugroove_at_pacbell.net)
Date: 2004-07-05 06:09:05
Hi Steve,
> check 1 of your own playlists, mark. without the "fancy, hi-tech
> equipment" (i.e., a sampler, turntables, pc and some software) there
> would be no kyoto jazz massive, bugz in the attic, 4 hero, zero 7, and
> whatever "nu-jazz" u care to mention, at least, not as we know it now.
First of all, I never said I was anti-technology. I just don't buy your
argument that technology itself a catalyst and/or a driving force in the
advancement of music. Ornette Coleman got his start playing a plastic
saxophone. That ought to be proof enough right there that it is not the
tools at your disposal, but what you do with them that really counts.
> and, you're view on capitalism making it harder to make music seems very
> old-fashioned.
Why do you say that? There are still plenty of starving, talented musicians
out there, even in the electronic arena. Hell, electronic music itself seems
to be last year's commodity! How many music magazines and labels have folded
just in the last year? Plenty!
> my main point in starting the thread is that capitalism
> has made "fancy, hi-tech equipment" de riguer and CHEAP.
Probably a valid point, but one which has very little bearing on the quality
of music, IMO.
> mark, its true u don't need any of this stuff to make music, and u don't
> need an internet to distribute it, and u don't even need electricity,
> for that matter. u can just play congas, if u like. But if u play the
> congas in a forest and nobody hears u, did u make a sound? isn't part of
> making music sharing it with other people? this is another place,
> distribution, where socialism totally drops the ball. capitalism has
> made life lots easier for lots of musicians, whether they appreciate it
> or not.
Well, I have never lived in a socialist country...but I would be interested
to hear what some of our UK listmembers think about this. It seems to me
that a lot of the most forward-thinking music in the last half of the 20th
century has come from the UK, which is very nearly socialist.
> btw... let's talk about the charts and the lack of talent... the 2 top
> selling artists out there right now are norah jones and usher. u may not
> like their music... but do u really want to argue they have no talent?
No, but I will argue that there is very little music in the charts today
that is truly original.
> besides that, look closer at the reality of the music business. Do u
> really think everyone associated with a britney spears record is no
> talent? britney is one piece of the puzzle. do u think the neptunes have
> no talent? there are a lot of *very* talented people who are able to do
> just what u say u want, i.e. put some money in the bank so they can make
> their own music, just becuz they did a record date or a tour w. someone
> like britney or justin or (gasp) barry manilow.
Oh wow, so capitalism is good if it lets a talented musician or producer
whore himself out?
(And please stop using that "u" as a pronoun...it's really irritating!)
> and, go back and look at the pop charts of the 30's, 40's, 50's, and
> etc... see how many songs that were big hits in their day were
> completely whack tunes with a shelf life of about 18 months. to say that
> pop only sucks now is not historically accurate.
Yes, but I didn't say pop ONLY sucks now, I said it is WORSE now than it has
ever been. And I truly believe that is true.
> and finally, saying u blame the lousy state of pop music on capitalism
> is kind of silly... because if there wasn't any capitalism, there
> wouldn't even BE any pop music.
One can only hope.
BTW, I'm surprised you didn't come at me with an argument like "capitalism
is good because people like Mr. Scruff and Nicola Conte can get rich off
commercials." While that is all well and good, how many commercial radio
stations have played their music? Next to none, I would bet. Their music is
catchy enough to license for car commercials, but because the recordings
aren't released on a major label, the radio stations just won't get behind
it. Capitalism at its most hypocritical...
-- Mark Turner/DJ Rocky Rococo nugroove_at_pacbell.net www.jazzadelica.com